Never mind my last post... Michele Bachmann says it's all lies...

>> Wednesday, March 31, 2010

Oops! Disregard my last post! Part of my argument was based on allegedly bigoted teabaggers shouting epithets at members of Congress. Turns out, however, that this didn't happen at all--Representative Michele Bachmann of Minnesota says so! And of course we all know how reliable, accurate, responsible and stable the highly-esteemed Representative Bachmann is--if she says it, surely it must be true! Why, apparently there's even a bounty out for any kind of video or audio proof of the false and fictitious claims of those lying liars who are solely interested in discrediting good American patriots blah blah blah blah blah--I'm sorry, there's a limit to how far even I can go with this kind of thing; Representative Bachmann is a tool.

I tried to raise the issue, last post, of why teabaggers weren't condemning their worst elements instead of implicitly embracing--and therefore endorsing--them. And here's your answer from the revered Rep. Bachmann: some will go so far as denying that anything untoward happened at all. It's quite possible I'm reading too much into this here, but I sincerely have to wonder if the subtext in Bachmann's comments isn't, "Hey, y'know, black folks make up accusations of racist assaults all the time"--unlike white people, of course; then there's the related question of whether Bachmann intends that subtext, since it at least seems reasonably likely that some members of her audience heard her comments that way, whether or not that was her express intent.

If it's not Bachmann's express intent, it's at least another example of certain Republicans playing with matches next to a gas can. Maybe, if we're all lucky, a few of these jackasses will burn their fingers and no more harm will be done than that--gasoline isn't quite as volatile as its sometimes made out to be in action movies in which automobiles and truck stops explode at the drop of a bullet--but only an irresponsible asshole or malicious prick plays with volatile inflammables so recklessly at all. How many matches sizzle out before one hits a combustible mix of fuel and air and blows the hell out of everything within range, and how many victims will somebody like Bachmann acknowledge responsibility for if she herself survives the explosion she triggered?


Nathan Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 11:48:00 AM EDT  

If I may carry on with my metaphor (Sarah Palin = Creed), I have to say that, thankfully, Bachmann is somewhat more like a garage band version. She's really loud and a lot of the notes aren't quite on, but she mostly only gets gigs at really crappy venues. And she plays early as the opening act, so the serious partiers are still at home getting ready for a night on the town.

On the other hand, she's trying awfully hard to suck in the big leagues.

Janiece Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 1:22:00 PM EDT many victims will somebody like Bachmann acknowledge responsibility for if she herself survives the explosion she triggered?

I assume that's a rhetorical question?

Mrs. Bitch Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 1:36:00 PM EDT  

Nope, Eric, you're not reading too much into anything. The stand of not only Bachmann, but the whole damn Republican party and the rightwing talking heads is to deny any wrongdoing; if confronted with hard, cold evidence, blame anyone else for twisting what they actually meant, or for using one small incident for political gain.

There are just too many examples: Perino and Giuliani denying that there were any terrorist attacks under GWBush, and the 30 senators who voted against the Franken amendment and then blamed Franken for making them look bad. The list goes on and on, but these are the two that stick out most in my mind because it reminds me of dealing with five or six-year-olds. Lie to the point that you are absolutely insulting the intelligence of the people you are lying to.

And no, if an actual atrocity should occur because some fundie fruitcake hears the thinly veiled violent rhetoric of Palin or Bachmann or Beck or Limbaugh and interprets it as a call to defend their own liberty at any cost, none of the right will take any responsibility for the incitement. Palin has already proven that: Take up arms, reload, bullseyes on maps of democratic targets - that all just means to get out and vote you sillies. You might think she could just say to get out and vote.

leanright,  Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 7:27:00 PM EDT  

Oh, Mrs. Bitch, you are always so aware. Not one republican or tea party member has condemned threats against congress, nor any Republican lawmaker. (I'd post a disenting opinion on your blog, but you don't like it when people disagree with you, so you just delete their comments; your blog, your business),0,7496390.story?track=rss

Oh, and Eric, sir? Yeah, this stuff is just the right threatening the left, I suppose.

Eric Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 9:24:00 PM EDT  

Actually, Dave, if you'd been paying more attention to the news, you might be aware that Norman Leboon allegedly threatened President Obama and the pig from the movie Babe (along with the movie's producers) and the Federal judiciary. So, y'know, as much as Republicans have been really, really happy that a lunatic whackjob got arrested for threatening a Republican, it's not anywhere close to being approximately the same thing.* Sorry to break your heart and deny the Republicans their coveted victim status this time around.

As for your comments to Mrs. Bitch.... First, let me say yet again: if you have issues with how Mrs. Bitch administers her blog, this still isn't the forum for them. She has every right to delete comments or not allow them at all. You have every right to start your own blog if you want. If how other bloggers run their blogs comes up again, I'll consider deletions myself. And that includes a response to this portion of this comment--I'm happy to let people rant away about the topic and I'm flexible about hijacks--but hip shots about blog administration issues are irritating. Don't anyone say anything else about it on this blog unless I write a post about that topic and open the door myself, eh?

That's the last I'll say about that, thank you.

Second: fair enough that the Colorado coalition condemned the threats, though even the article you link to accuses Representative Steve King, who the Coloradans suggest tea partiers donate to, of fanning the flames in the first place. As for Representative Boehner's comments: meh. Yeah, there's a condemnation in there, but that repeated rationalization ("there's a lot of anger out there... there's a lot of anger out there") comes off as the rhetorical equivalent of "sorry she got raped, but look at what she was wearing and why was she in that neighborhood at two a.m.?" I'll give you the Coloradans for now, but I'm not too impressed with your other example.

*Or, hey, maybe it is--was your point that tea partiers are batshit crazy and I missed it? Because, you know, a lot of them probably do think that pig was created by Lucifer. So if that was your point, I guess we agree about something after all.

Leanright,  Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 11:26:00 PM EDT  

My point, and may I first mention that I am NOT a "Teabagger" as I'm sure you'll all lump me into, simply because I'm a conservative, is that it does or has happened on both sides.

I'm sure we could point out Code Pink breaking the windows of military recruitment locations in Berkeley, hanging GW Bush in effigy, showing crude drawings on him being decapitate, making movies of his mock assassination, etc.

I whole heartedly disagree with violence or threats against the fine folks in congress, whether or not their votes were purchase. I believe it dilutes our cause. I'm sure there is enough going into November to show this ill-approved congress what the nation thinks of them.

I would tell the teabaggers, and perhaps the minute portion of them, stupid enough to have possibly spit or throw racial slurs that they do more to injure the cause than promote it. Did it happen? Maybe. I'm not an attorney, but if I was one, I'm sure proof would be something I would strive for; not the words of those at MSNBC, or the mouth of the human suppository, Nancy Pelosi. I'm content to vote in November, and watch the liberals bury themselves in a deep pile of....

Leanright,  Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 11:27:00 PM EDT  

and my grammar was all over the THERE!

Nathan Wednesday, March 31, 2010 at 11:58:00 PM EDT  

Did it really happen?

The Congressmen it happened to said it happened. I'm going to lean toward believing them until something comes along to show me that it didn't.

And yes, when your side started raving about death panels, I actually looked at what they were talking about in the legislation before I called them liars.

Leanright,  Thursday, April 1, 2010 at 2:12:00 AM EDT  

Remember when the left claimed that those shouting and arguing with congress persons in their districts were "planted" by the right at their town hall meetings last year? Really?

Perhaps alleged racial slurs were from persons planted within the tea party movement to make them look like morons.

Hey, if we're going to make shit up, then why not?

And Nathan, your grammar was just fine.

Chai, Chamomile, or Earl Grey....Hmmmmm, decisions, decisions.

Sesplog: How Nancy Pelosi controls her incontinence.

Nathan Thursday, April 1, 2010 at 9:25:00 AM EDT  

我不可能相信這些該死的人是寬鬆的在您的博克埃里克。 Let' s政治上改正材料對他們。

Eric Thursday, April 1, 2010 at 11:38:00 AM EDT  

Dave, a Google search of "town hall plants" indicates that allegation has been made by both sides, and it may or may not be true. But I'm not sure how you're making this leap: "Hey, if we're going to make shit up, then why not?" Are you implying that the members of Congress who are saying they were threatened or slurred are "making shit up"? Or are you saying that they were threatened by plants intended to discredit teabaggers but you're not going to investigate that claim.

You know, it's certainly not inconceivable that the ill-behaved might have been plants--that tactic has historical precedent here and abroad. But it seems to me that Occam's Razor is shaving against you here, Leanright: if our choice of explanations is (keeping it to only two for simplicity) either:

(1) Ill-behaved bigots within the tea party movement are acting consistently with signs and rhetoric used by other "better" behaved members of the tea party movement, or;

(2) There is, despite no proffer of evidence at this time, a conspiracy to discredit the tea party movement by person or persons unknown;

...which of these two is more probable at this time? Not only is there no evidence for (2), but (2) offers the disadvantage of asking for additional cogs and gears to work--after all, if there is a conspiracy to discredit the tea partiers with racist hecklers, does it include the men and women with signs mentioned in #1? How high and far does it extend? Perhaps the entire tea party movement is actually an elaborate honeytrap to destroy the Republican party!

Or not.

None of this means (2) isn't actually the case, of course: Occam's Razor is not a proof of anything, merely a tool useful for eliminating unproductive hypotheses. Number (2), therefore, might be resurrected should evidence for it appear, but it must be tabled for now, shoved to a box in the back and allowed to gather dust.

Finally, as to your "it's happened on both sides" point: two issues. First, and most obviously, yes, there has been bad behavior from liberals in the recent past and further back--and that's still as irrelevant as ever. How many times does one have to say something like this: if Code Pink jumped off an eighty foot cliff into the sea like rampaging lemmings,* would the teabaggers follow en masse? (If so, I think I may have an inklng as to how we might purge the left and silence the teabaggers... hmmm....) Secondly, the degree of racism evident within tea parties remains my primary concern, and is not something that has been evident in any equivalent fashion on the left at all; the nearest thing one can proffer might be the more extreme minority identity movements that gained prominence in the '60s, and (a) they never had the influence on "mainstream" politics the teabaggers seem to have on Republicans and the media and (b) honestly, when white people can point to ancestors who were herded off their traditional lands and decamped into Third-World-ish "reservations" at gunpoint or chained together and sold at auction like horses, I'll be more interested in their injuries and issues.

Dave, your comments are generally welcome, but you need to do better with your arguments.

*Yes, I know lemmings don't really do that and the footage was faked by Disney. Still stands as a metaphor.

Eric Thursday, April 1, 2010 at 12:48:00 PM EDT  

I'd turn this Salon piece about why the RNC can't fire Michael Steele into a "quote of the day" style blog post, except the whole thing would be the quote, so here's a link. The section referencing Jonathan Chait's thesis that the Republican party just doesn't understand racism at a fundamental level is, I think, dead on.

Leanright,  Thursday, April 1, 2010 at 1:28:00 PM EDT  

My "making shit up" comment referred to, the left "making up" that folks were planted at town hall meetings to challenge house and senate members in their own districts, then why not make up that "plants" were stationed with the Tea Party members.

Now, by asking me if I believe Tea Partiers should follow suit of Code Pink, no. I'm saying that irrational and poor behavior on either side is an abomination to the cause.

Much like comparing either this or the previous president to Hitler. Just looks foolish and is really an insult to 6,000,000 Jews who perished in the 30's & 40's.

leanright,  Wednesday, April 7, 2010 at 6:29:00 PM EDT  

Talk about people needing to walk in lock-step with their party, these people have it all wrong! Perhaps THEY were the culprits throwing racial slurs:

(Sorry, can't find THAT on Salon)

Eric Wednesday, April 7, 2010 at 9:43:00 PM EDT  


And then there's this, if you're keen on anecdotes from African-American conservatives.

I'll admit, I'm not exactly bowled over by a fluffy piece posted on Breitbart. But even if I took Breitbart seriously (something that's hard, I suspect, for most Deus Ex Malcontent fans to do), I'm not sure that evidence that criticisms or even slurs have been directed at individuals amongst the Tea Party's 6% of members who are identified as "Non-Hispanic black" changes the fact that the most visible and vocal members of the movement as a whole are overtly racist, if that's the point. And if the point is that some Tea Party critics have used expressions like "Oreo" or "Uncle Tom" and therefore racist epithets originating within the Tea Party are alright, well (1) no, and (2) it's a false equivocation even if two wrongs made a right. Also, (3) no.

It's possibly also worth noting that even in the AP article Breitbart posted, some of the people quoted seem less like teabagging conservative blacks than they do like opportunistic black Republicans; i.e. it's not clear that Angela McGlowan and Charles Lollar are pro-Tea Party so much as they're happy to seek teabagger votes and money if they can get them. A lot of Republicans seem to be willing to strike such Faustian bargains, but we'll see where it gets them.

Leanright,  Thursday, April 8, 2010 at 2:12:00 AM EDT  

Yes Eric, you're, well, for all eternity. After all, 95% of African American voted for Barack Obama...that had NOTHING to do with race.

Damn Black Conservative. Can't they just shut their fucking mouths and act like well behaved negroes? Hold out your hands everyone, big government has a big surprise for you.

There is no room for thought outside of your box.

I guess it's just about getting "Teabagger votes"? Really?

Eric Thursday, April 8, 2010 at 9:12:00 AM EDT  

Yes Eric, you're, well, for all eternity.

Thanks for finally noticing!

Leanright,  Thursday, April 8, 2010 at 10:50:00 AM EDT  

You are very welcome.

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